$35 Mechanical Field Watch Challenge

[watchpalooza]

Right...so there were both pocket and wrist field watches, and one came to be preferred over the other.

No. That is like saying the horseless carriage is a mid-size sedan. But i dig your style, and have said all along i am looking forward to the arguments as much as the watches. This is educational for me. And my opinion doesn't actually matter.

Despite its superiority the wristwatch took some time to catch on. In WWI you still had a lot of pocket “field” watches, and even some adapted or strapped in different ways. It wasn’t that one day everyone woke up and traded in their pocket watches for a wristwatch. You had “field-style” pocket watches alongside their wrist-strap cousins for many years...then “trench” watches, and finally what we now calL a modern field watch. No argument here, just clarifying what is admissible. Depending on where you look up “field watches” you will find wristwatch and pocket watch versions. Happy to stick to wristwatches for the challenge, but finding some really interesting pocket watch options and had to ask.

[Sporkboy]

Right...so there were both pocket and wrist field watches, and one came to be preferred over the other.

No. That is like saying the horseless carriage is a mid-size sedan. But i dig your style, and have said all along i am looking forward to the arguments as much as the watches. This is educational for me. And my opinion doesn't actually matter.

Despite its superiority the wristwatch took some time to catch on. In WWI you still had a lot of pocket “field” watches, and even some adapted or strapped in different ways. It wasn’t that one day everyone woke up and traded in their pocket watches for a wristwatch. You had “field-style” pocket watches alongside their wrist-strap cousins for many years...then “trench” watches, and finally what we now calL a modern field watch. No argument here, just clarifying what is admissible. Depending on where you look up “field watches” you will find wristwatch and pocket watch versions. Happy to stick to wristwatches for the challenge, but finding some really interesting pocket watch options and had to ask.

As it was envisioned, we will stick to wrist mounted watches for this challenge. Limiting to wrist watches will also make the voting easier as the function and usage will be comparable across the board.

Thank you for asking for a rules clarification on this.

[Sporkboy]

Warning about radioactive lume.

Many of the watches that you may be looking at for this challenge are likely to have radium on their dials and hands that may be flaking off.

This is a very dangerous material.

If you are not setup to work with radioactive materials, please do not open the watches to the point where you can access the radium as the powder can get into the air where it can get into your lungs.

When the watch is protected by a crystal you are generally OK, but when the powdered radium can get into the are then you can get into trouble.

To be safe, you should assume that vintage field watches contain radium.

I will update the original post to include this information.

[PetWatch]

Warning about radioactive lume.

Many of the watches that you may be looking at for this challenge are likely to have radium on their dials and hands that may be flaking off.

This is a very dangerous material.

If you are not setup to work with radioactive materials, please do not open the watches to the point where you can access the radium as the powder can get into the air where it can get into your lungs.

When the watch is protected by a crystal you are generally OK, but when the powdered radium can get into the are then you can get into trouble.

To be safe, you should assume that vintage field watches contain radium.

I will update the original post to include this information.

Great point.

Does simply removing the caseback potentially expose one to radium? I see many of these old watches with caseback removed to show movement.

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[Sporkboy]

Warning about radioactive lume.

Many of the watches that you may be looking at for this challenge are likely to have radium on their dials and hands that may be flaking off.

This is a very dangerous material.

If you are not setup to work with radioactive materials, please do not open the watches to the point where you can access the radium as the powder can get into the air where it can get into your lungs.

When the watch is protected by a crystal you are generally OK, but when the powdered radium can get into the are then you can get into trouble.

To be safe, you should assume that vintage field watches contain radium.

I will update the original post to include this information.

Great point.

Does simply removing the caseback potentially expose one to radium? I see many of these old watches with caseback removed to show movement.

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If the lume on the dial side is intact, then risk should be minimal. If it is only partially intact then the lume could have entered the movement on the dial side.

How likely is it that the powder is disturbed by opening the caseback? I don’t know. Without a Geiger counter, you would never know.

My guess is that it will be OK if the movement isn’t running and you open the caseback slowly. Again, without a meter of some sort you just don’t know.

Watchpalooza may know more about this topic. I am not a radiation expert, so you are encouraged to practice due diligence in your research of this topic so that you can make an informed decision.

[watchpalooza]

I am by no means an expert, but here is what I understand to be true.

Where radium is concerned, there are a few different risks. The most concerning risk is from alpha particles entering the body and causing cell mutations and killing healthy cells. Once inside the body, alpha particles become absorbed into bones and pretty much do not leave the body, posing a constant risk. Generally alpha particles are too large to penetrate the skin and most materials, so basic precautions can prevent ill effects. In a sealed watch the crystal and case tend to absorb most of them. The two ways alpha particles can get into the body are by ingestion or inhalation. This is largely what caused the “Radium Girls“ to fall ill, as they were quite literally licking the brushes and ingesting wet radium paint for several hours per day.

Over time, the lume-paint mixture tends to get brittle and particles become distributed throughout the watch. This means that anytime the case or crystal are removed, there is a heightened risk of inhalation. You should exercise appropriate care when performing any kind of work on a radium watch, whether lume deterioration is visible or not. Gloves and a respirator mask, and working in a well-ventilated area are advised.

Further, radium produces radon gas as it decays. Generally radon dissipates unless sealed in an air-tight container where it could build up. If the watch has an airtight seal, you may be at risk opening the case (if radon has built up and been trapped inside). Best to open them outside and with respiratory protection to prevent inhalation of any radon gas that is released. Similarly you should exercise care in how you store them and how many you keep in one location...to avoid a buildup of cancer-causing gas. Do not store them in air-tight containers, maintain adequate ventilation, and if you have a number of them consider storing them away from living and sleeping areas.

Third, radium produces gamma radiation. Unlike alpha radiation, gamma radiation penetrates the skin and is not stopped or absorbed by the crystal or most cases. It is fairly common as “background radiation” in our lives and at reasonable levels does not appear to pose a significant threat. A radium dial emits approximately 10uSv of gamma radiation per hour, which means that whether working on an open watch or wearing one will expose you to a full day’s worth of background radiation in about 20 minutes. So wearing a radium-painted watch for a full day will give more gamma radiation exposure than working on a watch for 30min to an hour. While this may sound alarming, there really is no clear evidence that this extra exposure to gamma radiation is very damaging. The real threat are the alpha particles.

SO if you do find you have a watch with radium paint, please educate yourself on the potential risks and take at least the basic precautions. In particular to avoid ingesting or inhaling “dust” and particles.

[cortman]

I am by no means an expert, but here is what I understand to be true.

Where radium is concerned, there are a few different risks. The most concerning risk is from alpha particles entering the body and causing cell mutations and killing healthy cells. Once inside the body, alpha particles become absorbed into bones and pretty much do not leave the body, posing a constant risk. Generally alpha particles are too large to penetrate the skin and most materials, so basic precautions can prevent ill effects. In a sealed watch the crystal and case tend to absorb most of them. The two ways alpha particles can get into the body are by ingestion or inhalation. This is largely what caused the “Radium Girls“ to fall ill, as they were quite literally licking the brushes and ingesting wet radium paint for several hours per day.

Over time, the lume-paint mixture tends to get brittle and particles become distributed throughout the watch. This means that anytime the case or crystal are removed, there is a heightened risk of inhalation. You should exercise appropriate care when performing any kind of work on a radium watch, whether lume deterioration is visible or not. Gloves and a respirator mask, and working in a well-ventilated area are advised.

Further, radium produces radon gas as it decays. Generally radon dissipates unless sealed in an air-tight container where it could build up. If the watch has an airtight seal, you may be at risk opening the case (if radon has built up and been trapped inside). Best to open them outside and with respiratory protection to prevent inhalation of any radon gas that is released. Similarly you should exercise care in how you store them and how many you keep in one location...to avoid a buildup of cancer-causing gas. Do not store them in air-tight containers, maintain adequate ventilation, and if you have a number of them consider storing them away from living and sleeping areas.

Third, radium produces gamma radiation. Unlike alpha radiation, gamma radiation penetrates the skin and is not stopped or absorbed by the crystal or most cases. It is fairly common as “background radiation” in our lives and at reasonable levels does not appear to pose a significant threat. A radium dial emits approximately 10uSv of gamma radiation per hour, which means that whether working on an open watch or wearing one will expose you to a full day’s worth of background radiation in about 20 minutes. So wearing a radium-painted watch for a full day will give more gamma radiation exposure than working on a watch for 30min to an hour. While this may sound alarming, there really is no clear evidence that this extra exposure to gamma radiation is very damaging. The real threat are the alpha particles.

SO if you do find you have a watch with radium paint, please educate yourself on the potential risks and take at least the basic precautions. In particular to avoid ingesting or inhaling “dust” and particles.

Makes sense to me, a similar risk as fuel fleas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_fleas

[Animal Mother]

If anyone wants to do some in depth reading (and is having trouble sleeping) please check out:
https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML0731/ML073120009.pdf

If you open the watch (which has tritium and/or radium paint for lume) then by observing precautions such as not exposing the dial, not licking tools/fingers, not breathing in deeply around the movement, not blowing out the movement, you should reduce risks.

After touching components wash your hands thoroughly. Wear a face mask if you have one.

Treat it like you've been treating COVID-19. "Contact is contamination". Contamination leads to ingestion.

Importantly, treat it with respect but don't be afraid of it.

Source: I work on a nuclear site every day.

[TheJohnP]

Thanks everyone, good information to have!
Forewarned is forearmed.

[Sporkboy]

Thank you Watchpalooza and AnimalMother. Your experience in these matters is appreciated.

In other news to settle the debates about Komandirskes, I present this:

C883B43F-E9B1-40FE-B970-6CF99369254D.jpeg (124.7 KiB) Viewed 10492 times

It sure looks like a field watch to me.

[watchpalooza]

Oh yeah, Russian watches are an obvious fit for this challenge.

[Sporkboy]

Oh yeah, Russian watches are an obvious fit for this challenge.

I would be tempted to go this route if I find a deal like I found on this one (two Komandirskes for under $20). At that price, I would be able to hunt down a different dial or something. I did find one watch that is beautiful and technically a field watch, but more dressy in nature for sure.

[PetWatch]

Thank you gents for the great info. Seems a relatively manageable low risk. I also like to minimize total lifetime exposure risk, so will look for radium free watches. Don't want any more than I already have.

Not that I'm risk averse by any means, but you have to pick and choose your spots.

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[TheJohnP]

Oh yeah, Russian watches are an obvious fit for this challenge.

I would be tempted to go this route if I find a deal like I found on this one (two Komandirskes for under $20). At that price, I would be able to hunt down a different dial or something. I did find one watch that is beautiful and technically a field watch, but more dressy in nature for sure.

There were officers in the field.
That could make the case for something slightly dressier.

[TheJohnP]

Well my entry came in today.
Listed as working. Wouldn't run when wound.

Back to the drawing board...sigh.